Interview with a Companera from the National Liberation Movement

Women have a long history of organization in the popular movements of Central America, but never have they been as active as they are today, both in terms of pursuing women's issues and the general struggle against repression and injustice. These extracts from an interview, reprinted from the dossier Central American Women Speak for Themselves (Latin American Working Group, P.O. Box 2207, Station P. Toronto. Ontario M5S 2T2, Canada), describe the participation of women in Guatemala where a military coup in 1954 has been followed by more than three decades of brutal repression culminating in the present civil war.

Since the interview was recorded in February 1983. the organization IXQUIC has been formed to deepen knowledge of the situation of women in Guatemala and promote solidarity with their cause. For more information contact IXQUIC: Apartudo Postal 27-008. Zona Postal 06760. Mexico. D.F.

When did women first become involved in the popular struggle in Guatemala?

The Guatemalan people have been involved for a very long time, for many years, in a silent struggle. From the beginning, working in every way, women have always been there.

Because of the conditions in our country, many women have become deeply political. Women in Central America in general have been changing because of the life, the conditions and their own determination to change the situation. As a result, women are changing the situation of women by actively participating inside the struggle. Even unconsciously, women are doing a great deal of work, are part of the struggle and part of the decision-making. But, this implies more work, risks and sacrifices. Women are prepared to become involved in these many different roles because they know if they do not, they will never have the possibility of changing society or their conditions.

Can you talk about some of the early work carried out by women?

As I said, Guatemalan women have always been involved in the "process" (the struggle) and have been active at every level. To give a couple of examples of women who were involved very early on and who were involved in the armed opposition at a time when not many were involved - we remember Rogelia Cruz. Rogelia was named Miss Guatemala one year, but afterwards took part in the armed opposition organization. She was captured and found later showing signs of terrible torture. Her breast was cut off; she had been beaten with a rifle. It was the first example of really brutal torture by the army. Of course that has become quite common now.

Nora Paiz was involved in the armed struggle, through the FAR - the Revolutionary Armed Forces. It was also in the early stages. She started to participate around 1963 and she was killed, I believe around 1966, with the poet Rene Castillo. They were coming back to the city, back down from the mountains and were caught and both were burned alive ... yes, burned alive.

During the 1944-54 period, popular organizations flourished, and also women's participation. Their participation is probably most evident with the teachers, because at that time, the teachers took a very prominent role in the opposition to the dictator Ubico ... just before the 10 years of democracy Guatemalans experienced. In fact one of the teachers is recognized as a kind of heroine - her name was Maria Chinchia she is remembered because she was very brave in facing the army. She was a teacher and she went out into the streets leading protests. She was in the front lines facing the army when she was killed in 1944. For facing Ubico in that way, she is considered to be especially brave.

And also in that period there was a women's organization. I think that it was part of the popular movement spreading throughout the country.

The major point is that women have never been outside the struggle, for its entire process. From the beginning, they have worked at every level. They participate now, and they will participate even more after the victory, during reconstruction. This participation will guarantee them an important role in the future.

Can you explain how Guatemalan women see their struggle as women, particularly in the context of increased repression?

At the time when all the unions and labor federations were coming together in the CNUS (an umbrella organization of more than KM) union, peasant and other organizations formed to strengthen the labor movement's demands and to give support to labor groups undergoing increased police repression) women certainly didn't see their struggle as an isolated one. They saw themselves along with others who were exploited - not just as a women's particular issue. That same attitude or position was true at all levels of work and in the mass organizations. It's not that women didn't experience their exploitation or oppression as women, but we realized that there had to be a change in that system which was oppressing us. We realized we would have to go to the roots of the problem. Women wouldn't be able to do that just through a women's organization, or isolated from the rest of what was going on.

It's not a question of setting aside women's rights. And it's not as if we don't have women's demands - or that we will be the last sector to demand our rights. At the same time as we are participating at different levels within the struggle, we are getting clearer about our own role and we are beginning to break down traditional patterns ... patterns which we had for so long that we as women didn't even know that we were oppressed. Now, because of our participation, women are able to understand their oppression as women. From now on it won't be so hard for women to put forward their own demands.

We also don't see it as just a question of waiting until the right time, because women are already doing this in their daily practice. These patterns are things that have to be broken, not after the victory, but every day and at all levels. These patterns involve both men and women, and both men and women will have to change them.

Some sectors of Guatemalan women have been affected by the women's movement in North America ... but it's important to distinguish which sectors. I couldn't say for example, that Indian women in Guatemala have been affected by the North American women's movement. Not even by Guatemalan women, and certainly not by middle or upper classes of women. I agree that women who have the opportunity and exposure to the North American women's movement have been affected, but unfortunately for many, it seems to be a snobbish thing. I couldn't say that it has touched most Guatemalan women very deeply.

I think it is especially important to look at the participation of Indian women, a participation that is less in mass organizations and more in the armed opposition. Indian women didn't generally follow a pattern of working in mass organizations and then go into armed struggle. They have gone right from their oppression to joining the armed struggle.

The issue of Indian women's participation is very complex. In Guatemala, Indians have largely been able to conserve their own culture and traditions. Within the framework of exploitation, they have been very exploited. But at the same time, they are closed societies and have retained a deep sense of community. They don't allow ladinos or foreigners, as a general rule, to come into their communities. Within this context, women have their own roles.

Customs, traditions and culture are extremely important to the Indian women as well as men, of course. You may have heard about how some of these women are now changing their traditional clothing for uniforms in order to take up armed struggle. You have to realize the extent to which they have developed their consciousness - in order for them to do that something very, very deep has occurred, especially in some of the rural communities. Their disposition to give up one of the things that is most precious to them in order to take up the struggle is very significant, and this is just one expression of the commitment so many Indian women have.

How has your own consciousness about women's struggles developed?

From my own personal experience, I know that if I had never had experience and involvement in the popular struggle, I would have never developed an awareness of women's oppression. I would have remained like so many women, especially in the cities, who never participate and don't know what is going on, or even what their rights are. It was my participation in the whole process, you might say, that opened my eyes to women's exploitation as such.

I can remember some of the things that began to open my eyes. I began to realize how much harder it is for the women, the campesinas, than for the men and also for women in the cities, than for their working husbands. For example, I can remember seeing women in the Highlands with babies on their backs, taking care of sheep, and taking care of other children. Then they would have to take their lunch to their husbands. Women would have to make the clothing and also they sell some things, in order to bring in a little extra income into the family. At the same time, they have to take care of all the children. Look how much they are doing! I mean, the man has to leave the home early in the morning and go to the fields to work. But the infrastructure and all the support is the women.

In the case of women in the factories, I can remember being particularly struck by seeing pregnant women in the textile factories, working night shifts without a chair to sit on, without anything to make the work a bit easier for them. But they would be there, working just as hard as the men.

In many cases, of course, both the man and woman will be working, but the burden of the housework and the children will be on the woman. So she will have a double day. If she's involved in unions or other political work, then she will have a triple day.

Desertion by men of their families has also been a problem, just as in Nicaragua and El Salvador. The problem has been more common in the cities than in the countryside, although it is also evident there. It occurs in the middle and upper classes as well, but in these cases women will have some means of economic support. Their children are recognized, or they can go to court in order to fight for an allowance.

The other thing you will see quite commonly is domestics having children as a result of being forced to have relationships with their bosses. In many cases, the women will have the children and then give them to the grandparents to care for. The women will go back to work and then frequently will have another child. Of course, when she can she sends money home for the children.

To understand Guatemalan women, I think it is very important to recognize that we come from very different perspectives and contexts. Our social, economic and political situations are very different.

political situations are very different. We have to think about how Guatemalan Indian women, who have participated in the struggle, will be able to fit back into their communities after the victory. What will happen to their relationship to the other women who didn't have the same level of participation? It will be a very interesting thing. It's almost certain that they won't go back to accepting the old traditional roles. But at the same time, they will go back to their communities and work in the reconstruction.

In think it is important for Western women to understand why we don't have the same demands, or revindicaciones. What could we ask for now in terms of being equal? In many senses, for women it would mean equal repression and we already have that.